Why Aren't I 50 Points Ahead?

[Focalor]

Sure, like it never happens...

When does it happen? I can't remember any instances of large numbers of people getting killed under mysterious circumstances. Because if 2000 people (a more accurate figure) died, I'm pretty sure the tragedy pimping ratings vultures in the news media would be all over it like stink on shit.

A lot of people these days want to think the government is evil and corrupt, and it kinda is, but... I think too many people give them too much credit too. They're dumbasses. That's why they're corrupt and why we KNOW they're corrupt. If they were the James Bond villain evil geniuses that too many people want to give them too much unwarranted credit for being, then they'd be smart enough to figure out how to hide the fact that they're corrupt sh*theads from everyone. Our government is STUPID. That's why so much of it sucks. Bad things happen when stupid people are left in charge.

[Mindf!3ldzX]

@bfg666

yep, pretty much works the same way here. they say politics is the 2nd-oldest profession, and is just about as bad as the 1st.



Damn straight. Here's another scenario: our govt actively tries to disarm (or make it very difficult to legally arm) American citizens.

Country United States of America
Allegiance Federal (10 U.S.C. § E) State/Territory (32 U.S.C.)
Branch United States Army United States Air Force
Role State militia, reserve forces

I like to think if the Fed gov got out of line, many if not all states National Guard's Adjutant Generals would fall into State militia defense.

[Focalor]

I "like" to think that too. But... will they? How many states are willing to potentially start a 2nd American Civil War over it? I'm not sure that enough states would be willing to stand their ground and defy the federal government if they found themselves in a major disagreement over policy. Like I said, I'd "like" to believe they'd take a stand, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I knoooooooooow Texas is willing, those people are some serious gun-loving, mean sumbitches. Pretty sure Ted Nugent lives there too on his humongous Spirit Wild Ranch... where I'm pretty sure he has a fence around it tall enough to keep the deer from escaping. Spirit of the "Wild", indeed. If Uncle Ted lives there, you KNOW they're all some "MY COLD DEAD HAND" chanting lifelong NRA members.

And not to shit talk the man too much. He's a legal hunter and does everything by the law 100% of the time, and he actually tends to bowhunt deer more than rifle hunt, which I personally think is the more "sportsman" thing to do. But like I said, he basically fences all the wildlife in to keep them from migrating elsewhere. That's kinda like cheating. And if that ain't toeing the line of unethical hunting practices, shooting wild hogs from a helicopter with a 308 chambered AR probably trips and falls right over the line face first.

Then again... fuck them damn hogs. There's no bag limit on them. They root up land and ruin crops faster than a biblical swarm of locusts. But still... I wish he wouldn't put himself on TV shooting game from a helicopter. It makes him look like a douchebag.

[Mugwump]

When does it happen?

Uh, seriously? You don't see it happening? Right now, as we speak? Hint: a 5-letter name, starts with an "S"...

[Focalor]

Uh, seriously? You don't see it happening? Right now, as we speak? Hint: a 5-letter name, starts with an "S"...

I'm not a mind reader, but I'll give it a whirl.

Syria?

Sure, Syria. North Korea too. Several other places. But not the US. And the US was the subject of discussion, not any random military dictatorship.

[Mugwump]

Several other places. But not the US.

Oh? So the slaughter of the natives never happened?

[DeathMaster]

Oh, somebody think of the natives! That was the result of colonialism, expansion in the West. That doesn't apply when we're talking about events like 9/11. Find me a relevant example.

[MadGypsy]

Waco.

I could name more but, we aren't all going to agree it was a conspiracy, and I don't feel like arguing things that have volumes of information at everyones disposal.

[Mugwump]

If you keep on narrowing down the field of relevance of your interlocutor's replies there's bound to be a point where there is no acceptable answer anymore... Anyway, it's not because something hasn't happened yet in one place that it can't happen. This train of thought pretty much guarantees that it will eventually. Most americans thought something like 9/11 couldn't ever happen in the US. Guess what? It did. You're currently one election away from having a raving lunatic posing as chief of government, so right now "couldn't ever happen" are pretty big words...

[Focalor]

You're missing the point. The point is... could a government pull off a terrorist plot as huge as Sept 11 2001 and get away with framing someone else for it when the plot would obviously involve THOUSANDS of guilty co-conspirators. The liklihood of all involved co-conspirators not spilling the truth to someone at some point is impossible. When newly made guys in the italian mafia take the vow of omerta, it's made crystal clear that the punishment for breaking that oath is that they'll be shot in the face at point blank range with a sawed off 12 gauge double barrel shotgun... and sometimes they still talk.

The systematic persecution and killing of numerous native american tribes in the 1700's and 1800's doesn't apply. No one blamed the near eradication of the Cherokee nation during the Trail of Tears on... rogue Canadians who installed dozens of pitfall traps along the route. They died of disease, exhaustion, starvation, etc because US soldiers forcibly marched them out with no concern for their wellbeing or survival. There was no coverup. That was the story back then, and it's the same unchanged story today.

It was a terrible thing what happened to a lot of native american tribes, but... it was a different era and there were other factors. Many tribes in the southwestern US such as the Commanche and Apache were constantly raiding settlements and killing people. Before that, many tribes sided with the French against the northeastern colonists in the French-Indian War. A lot of white men thought they had a pretty good reason to despise native americans regardless of the tribe they came from. And the US wasn't alone when it comes to liquidating indigenous populaces. It wasn't until the World Wars of the last 100 years that mankind finally came to the realization that violent conquest is unethical and all people should have a right to live and exist. The Romans decimated plenty of peoples. So did the Spanish, the Mongols, the Turks, etc. It was a different time, and that was the mindset of that era.

[Mugwump]

There is no doubt that pulling something like 9/11 off with the complicity of the entire government would be extremely unlikely. Then again, powerful people have the means to do things off-the-records. It doesn't have to involve that many people. When you consider the Bush family's ties to the Bin Ladens, there is room for doubt.

[MadGypsy]

You don't need an entire government or even a whole lot of people to pull off a 9/11. All you need is some people at the top willing to do nothing and a completely outside entity willing to do something during the "nothing".

Dick Cheney could have pulled 9/11 off entirely by himself. All he had to do was set the stage with unknown actors and do nothing to stop them. Funny that, considering he gave the stand-down order on 9/11. I'd be more open minded to 9/11 if most of the evidence wasn't completely impossible. Like completely disintegrating planes, skyscrapers meant to withstand a plane crash falling at free fall speed due to fires that have been scientifically proven through numerous entities to not be hot enough to melt steel and certainly not hot enough to take down an entire building. "Evidence" found in practically mint condition within the rubble of a building that collapsed against all scientific logic due to extreme fire....there is so much bullshit in their story I don't see how anyone could believe it. What about all the "insiders" that got phone calls telling them not to come to work at the Trade Center that day? Or Impossible telephone calls for that time period. Or Larry Silverstein taking out new insurance policies on the Trade Center a week or so before it happened. Or how about all the gold that was stored under the trade centers that NOBODY can find? I mean, fuck, is there anything believable about the official story? Anything!?

And even if people can completely suspend their disbelief and buy all that nonsense... Building 7! It came down identical to the other buildings and it wasn't hit by anything. Even better... How about the news cast that claimed one of the buildings had fell (I forget which) minutes before it actually happened? The whole fucking thing is a smoking gun.

Some people may claim "forensic evidence". How fuckin convenient is that? Evidence that you cannot verify provided for you by complete strangers. I'm astounded that people wont believe their own eyes and common sense but they will believe a stranger that is doing nothing but claiming something.

[Focalor]

Sigh.

I wanna quit fucking with this guy, but he just keeps posting this dumb garbage and it's impossible. Everything he says debunks his own "theories" (which aren't his own, he read them off of one of the many ridiculous 9/11 conspiracy webpages) and proves my points perfectly.

Fine, let's be completely obtuse and say it was NOT a huge conspiracy involving lots of people. Let's say it involved only a small handful of people at the top, like he theorizes. We're aware of how vulturous the media is every time a school shooting happens. They POUNCE on the story and beef it up with all kinds of emotionally charged drama-queen words like "tragedy" and "devastation" and "horror". They want ratings. Ratings equals money. The higher their ratings, the more they can charge advertisers for air time. If it were truly an act perpetrated by a small number of people at the top alone, then you'd have to admit that they wouldn't be involving the news media in covering it up. If they're not involved, then do you think it's reasonable to assume that they wouldn't have seen all these 9/11 conspiracy webpages themselves? Would it be congruent to their established character traits to NOT do everything possible to prove these conspiracy theories as true and be the first to break such a huge and surely ratings-grabbing story?

So if the news media isn't in on the conspiracy, and CrazyGypsy is smart enough to figure out the whole thing, why would it be reasonable to assume that the news media wouldn't spend expend vast resources to investigate these allegations and bring them to the public? They HAVE investigated these theories. And they've found them to be bullshit. That's why they don't report it as the truth.

I'm astounded that people wont believe their own eyes and common sense but they will believe a stranger that is doing nothing but claiming something.

Yeah, god dammit, Me too! YOU'RE the stranger claiming shit to folks on this messageboard, and the 9/11 conspiracy webpage was the stranger claiming shit to YOU.

Like completely disintegrating planes...

False. They didn't disintegrate. They recovered plenty of wreckage.

...skyscrapers meant to withstand a plane crash...

False. Skyscrapers are NEVER meant to withstand a plane crash. Some are designed to hopefully not collapse during earthquakes up to a magnitude of around 7, like what is the current building code for skyscrapers in Japan, but none are built to withstand planes crashing into them. That wouldn't be a skyscraper, that would be a military bunker. I can't recall the 100% accurate building specs, but the World Trade Center towers were NOT built with these newer techniques that they use in Japan which allow buildings to sway without their foundations sinking and without the core of the structure failing. They used steel and rebar reinforced concrete. They don't get earthquakes in New York City often enough to have building codes that call for earthquake-resistent building techniques.

...falling at free fall speed due to fires that have been scientifically proven through numerous entities to not be hot enough to melt steel and certainly not hot enough to take down an entire building...

False. Numerous government and independently funded studies have been conducted to prove what any science and physics student already knows: that tremendous mass supported by steel which has been weakened by tremendous heat will eventually succumb to the forces of gravity.

Common sense. Not so common around here maybe.

[nahuel]

what many people feel secure, knowing that everything published is true !! world is so easy !! we are good, terrorists are bad, science (done by others, because i do not anything) is the truth!!

[wicked_lord]

Sadly this criminal scum is coming to my city tomorrow "Fort Pierce/Port St. Lucie, FL" for a fundraiser. I am going to avoid the airport area and western part of the county as they will be blocking darn near every road within 2 miles of her while her motorcade travel's to her destination.