Hexen II: Black Plague beta version released!

[sj1985]

The beta is finally released. Please provide me with some feedback after playing it. Thank you and have fun!

D1G1T4L D1STRESS: Hexen II: Black Plague Beta version released!

[golden_boy]

Holy crap, this map is brutal.

It wasn't enjoyable to play for me.

Does the map support skill settings at all? Even on skill 0, I got owned badly.

You should slowly ramp up the difficulty of monsters in the map, putting just a few easy monsters in the beginning and then harder monsters later on (when the player has better weapons).

Having to take out all these mummies and golems with just the starting weapon and almost no health is not fun.

The map also seems to run slower than it should, and I'm not sure why.

It is a good idea to privately ask some people to playtest your map before you upload it to any forum.

Currently unplayable for me. At least give the second weapon before you throw mummies at me.


Edit: I just saw this was your first map, or your first 3D map. Well, the construction of the environment isn't bad at all. You just should make sure your level supports skill settings, and you should not give the player mana or throw hard monsters at them while they still only have the starting weapon. Killing the player is not the goal of level design.

[Seven]

Hello sj1985,

Thank you for releasing the beta version of your Hexen2 map.
I would like to give some feedback, as you asked for on your website.

Having read from golden_boy that your map is hard, I started playing on easy skill (I am not a good player, so I usually play fan-made maps on easy skill first anyway).

I received my second weapon after killing 1 scorpion and 2 mummies. That was doable for me. I played the female player (assassin) because I like her second crossbow weapon.
I must say as long as your second weapon is a ranged weapon everything went smooth from that point. A paladin is by far more difficult as he is the only character whose second weapon is a melee one. So he needs to kill the strong golem in melee combat.
But with a ranged weapon and the big amount of blue mana it was not difficult as you could run way back in the map and keep a distance from the golem.

The difficult settings worked for me. Each skill setting brought up more monsters. I used jeanks improved jshexen2 engine by the way.

[SPOILER_start]
After that I had to decide which way to go: left or right.
I chose right and found the third weapon after 1 more mummy and 1 flying creature (gargoyle ?)
[SPOILER_end]

That is a point I want to mention:
You could maybe put more different enemy types into the map. Archers are always a nice one. They make cool sounds when drawing their bows and I like them.
But as I wrote, I only played through on easy skill, so there are maybe more enemy types in higher difficulties...


Then I really started to enjoy your Hexen2 map !
I liked the way you lead the player through the level and bring him back to some already visited areas. That is very Hexen2 like and it brings back good memories.
I do not know if it is jshexen2 feature, but I liked the teleporters, which have different textures.
The idea in the snake room with the "fog" above the hole was really beautiful too.
I must say your architecture is really beautiful. It is almost not believable that it was your first 3D map...
[SPOILER_start]
A nice one is also the revenge of the gods, when you want to investigate the dead corpse near the third weapon. Neat idea !
[SPOILER_end]

You put a LOT of the Hexen2 items into your map. I must admit I do not remember all of their meanings/powers. You could reduce their amount a little and maybe raise the regular blue health potions a tiny bit. Mana is more than enough in your map as well.

The mixture of narrow and medium areas and a few larger ones works really great and I like the usage of textures. Very colorful.
You also added a small "crossing a distroyed way" which is always cool.
Your map never was boring and you played with height difference all the time. Which is a big plus and makes it interesting.

I do not want to talk about the end (2nd map) as I do not want to spoil too much.


In the end I want to say, that the map is already very polished for a beta. Easy skill was perfect for me (as long as you do not play paladin, due to second melee weapon).
Some more monster variations would be great.


Please do not stop creating Hexen2 maps with this high standard !
It was a pleasure.

[golden_boy]

The thing is, easy skill really should be easy, not merely "doable."

A lot of mappers have this tendency to make their maps overly hard, or to not have a good Easy skill setting. This is usually due to a lack of playtesters. It is also often the case that a mapper will assume their map is fairly balanced, because they have no problems finishing it themselves.

However, as the mapper you usually know your map like the back of your hand. That is why it seems easier to you. For other people who see your map for the first time, the difficulty will feel a lot greater.

Some mappers also feel like they have to create a real challenge for players. That is fine - but do it in Hard mode. Easy should be easy. It is not dishonourable to make your map accessible to less hardcore players. Quite the contrary - it is better design.

[talisa]

just tried it, and it indeed is crazy difficult

instantly right from the bat pitting the player again 2 anubi and a scorpion without giving the player with the starter-weapon,
and if the player runs to the next room they find even more anubi and scorpions and even a golem

dun mean to boast but i am a quite good player,
but i kept getting my ass kicked before even managing to make it past the second room


you should either give the player more weapons, or the better option, start with less difficult enemies
to much difficult enemies without giving the player more weapons dont make for an enjoyable map

.

the map-design is definitely great, i love how the map looks

but the crazy difficulty right from the start just makes that its not fun to play

[sj1985]

Thanks everyone for the feedback. It is greatly appreciated. I could have guessed that the skill level would cause some problems for players, as it is indeed quite nasty. I'll fix this in the final version.

As for the monster variation...I know that archers are used somewhere in the original Egyptian hub but I kinda feel that they do not fit that setting. I'm not sure what to do with that one.

Anyone else experienced slowdowns while playing?

[golden_boy]

I was already guessing that the monster lineup in this map was partly due to the Egyptian theme, hence mummies galore.

I can understand that. Archers are perhaps not very Egyptian.

But, hm, what about spiders. I think spiders are usable in any Hexen 2 map really as they're not inherently medieval. Skull wizards might just work, too.

You could also just give the player more armour and some powerups right off the bat to balance the toughness of the Egyptian monsters.

On Easy skill, I would really prefer to ease into the level gracefully; perhaps even leave the first room empty so the player can take in the nice Egyptian atmosphere.

If it was me, I'd spawn the first monsters when the player picks up the second weapon. I'd choose perhaps a skull wizard and scorpion combo on Easy skill. Just as a suggestion.

[Seven]

Hello sj1985,

No, I didnt encounter slowdowns as far as I remember.
Maybe it depends on the engine that you used ? Did you try different ones ?

Regarding the difficulty:
You could take a look at how existing games do it and maybe see how you could implement it into your map. If you look at original Hexen2, which difficulty settings are quite good/balanced and start a new game in easy skill. You will only have the 1st weapon, which is always a melee weapon in vanilla Hexen2. You will encounter spiders first. Spiders are monsters without a ranged attack. And that point is important.
So, for your map it would be scorpions or spiders, that you should put into the start of your map. That would be a perfect start for "easy" skill in the first area of your map.
Currently there is 1 scorpion and 1 mummy in the 1st area. So simply delete the mummy.
You will find 2 blue health potions there, which is perfect.
After you have killed the 1 scorpion you will have enough time to enjoy your nice Egyptian ambience. Killing the scorpion in that 1st medium-sized outside area should be easy as you have enough space to run around/away from him.

I would not leave out monsters until you find the second weapon, as this also never happens in original "easy" Hexen2 skill (remember you even have to fight archers with ranged attacks there…).
It would feel like running around the first 2 areas without monsters and would be weird in a first person shooter. A second scorpion instead of the golem would be perfect. I would say leave the single mummy in the second room with the second weapon.
You have the big health potion there, so …

An important thing is to put secret/hidden blue health potions into destroyable vases (if you want, more in "easy" skill than in others).
I mostly found mana there currently. As mentioned in my previous post, health potions could be increased in your map. Put them into vases and reward the players who look into them. I am always very happy when I find things in vases/barrels/boxes.
That really motivates the player.

The golem in the second room should definitely be reserved for "hard" skill, as he is almost not beatable with melees. For "normal" skill you should replace the golem with a mummy.
That is it.

For everything beyond the 2nd room, which holds the second weapon, you can almost keep your current monster count. It felt already "easy" for me in your current beta map "easy skill condition" after having the second weapon.
As described above: The big amount of both mana types makes it quite easy to kill also ranged monsters, once you have your 2nd and 3rd (which you get shortly after 2nd) weapon.


In the end one thought of mine:
Hexen2 is quite different to Quake. Quake is all about ranged weapons for the player. The axe is almost never used (except when you run out of ammo).
In Hexen2 the focus is a little more on the 1st weapon. You will have max. 4 weapons anyhow, so every weapon has its meaning.
In Hexen2 you will find yourself fighting in melee more than in Quake. Which is good in my opinion. The demoness from Hexen2 mission pack is the only one which has only ranged weapons.

Thank you again for your great map.
I am very confident that you will fix the monster issue in your first 2 rooms and make it a beautiful and balanced map.
I can only repeat myself: Your architecture is really nice and you put lots of cool ideas in your map which the player will keep remembering. At least I will do

Best wishes

[sj1985]

I would like to thank everyone who provided me with some feedback on the project. During the next 2 weeks I'll be working on the issues that came up so I can release the full version. I'll keep you updated. Thanks again!