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**Baker** · 01-06-2008, 09:28 PM

Nothing here to see.

Really!

Original GLQuake code

gl_rmain.c(100): cvar_t gl_doubleeyes = {"gl_doubleeys", "1"};
gl_rmain.c(541): if (!strcmp (clmodel->name, "progs/eyes.mdl") && gl_doubleeyes.value) {
gl_rmisc.c(210): Cvar_RegisterVariable (&gl_doubleeyes);

Ok, here is the play by play.

Original GLQuake code

gl_rmain.c(100): cvar_t gl_doubleeyes = {"gl_doubleeys", "1"};

^^ We have a console variable ... you know, like cl_forwardspeed, called gl_doubleeyes and it can be called from the console by "gl_doubleeys" with a default value of "1". Only we typo'd the part you type in the console!

But nevertheless, the default value is 1! In GLQuake, this is ON by default.

gl_rmain.c(541): if (!strcmp (clmodel->name, "progs/eyes.mdl") && gl_doubleeyes.value) {

Ok, we are checking to see if we should make the eyes larger. gl_doubleeyes has a default value of 1 = ON. Now unless you turn it off yourself and even know it is possible, it's gonna be on.

So ... long story short. It's always been there and has ALWAYS been on in GLQUAKE. They just typo'd the name you type in the console to turn it off, you'd have to type "gl_doubleeys 0" to turn it off.

It's on by default; if you are a moron you could always turn it off

**Canadian*Sniper** · 01-06-2008, 09:33 PM

Gotcha. What I'm most interested in is to hear other people's opinions on whether this feature is unfair for winquake (and darkplaces) users or not.

Originally posted by Baker View Post

Nothing here to see.

Really!

All you've done is support the fact that it's available to glquake users. Don't dismiss the entire thread because of that.

**Fuzznut** · 01-06-2008, 10:17 PM

I dont know. looking at those pics it seems to be on in mine so I've never noticed. I don't know. I don't want to think right now.

**R00k** · 01-07-2008, 10:08 AM

if (clmodel->modhint == MOD_EYES && gl_doubleeyes.value)
{
glTranslatef (paliashdr->scale_origin[0], paliashdr->scale_origin[1], paliashdr->scale_origin[2] - (22 + 8 ) ); // <-- reposition based on the scale...
glScalef (paliashdr->scale[0] * 2, paliashdr->scale[1] * 2, paliashdr->scale[2] * 2);//<---- make the model x2 in size. **HACK
}

The comment in original GLQuake is "// double size of eyes, since they are really hard to see in gl" I guess at default 640x480 the iD team thought that Winquake had the advantage

I cant find this in DarkPlaces nor ezQuake...

**LordHavoc** · 01-11-2008, 06:17 PM

I removed gl_doubleeyes solely because it depended on a filename, DarkPlaces does not have any checks for specific filenames, as a matter of policy - just like winquake does not.

I always thought gl_doubleeyes was a blatant hack and of dubious value.

The reason it exists is that winquake renders very small models as a particle cloud, which leads to them appearing bigger than they really are when they are small and far away, this affects nails and the eyes model, especially at low resolution (320x200), at higher resolutions the particle-cloud code rarely kicks in, so arguably glquake is at more of an advantage than intended when you compare to winquake running 640x480 and up.

When I wrote the 16bit/32bit software renderer in quakeforge I had to kill this particle-cloud code because it was difficult to translate to other color formats, so it is at the same disadvantage as glquake is, and you could compare the different rendering appearances in quakeforge by switching renderer (between the 8bit software renderer, 16bit/32bit software renderer, and gl renderer) and taking screenshots.

At even higher resolutions than 640x480 they are not particularly hard to see, so I don't see much value in this hack, we're not on voodoo1 cards anymore

Ultimately the reason for winquake's particle-cloud rendering is that it is about 4x as fast as the polygon model rendering, think of it like turning a model into a sprite, it was trying to bring Quake closer to Doom performance levels.

**Baker** · 01-11-2008, 11:10 PM

Interesting stuff.

I read somewhere in some officialish or straightforwardish documentation (www.planetquake.com/console ?) that the eyes were smaller in glquake than winquake and gl_doubleeyes was to address this.

So now we know this was true in a very limited sense, constrained by resolution/hardware.

Funny how wrong knowledge or only partially accurate knowledge filters into the public consciousness.

Originally posted by Canadian*Sniper View Post

Don't dismiss the entire thread because of that.

Actually, I did. I was trying to be openminded but I was too brainwashed to actually keep my mind open :d

**LordHavoc** · 01-12-2008, 12:36 AM

I should point out another interesting collection of hacks in Quake rendering:

winquake has a colormap.lmp that is built to never have "true black", giving everyone using extreme gamma levels the ability to see in the dark, such settings are more difficult to achieve in glquake, and to be honest this lack of true black was rather ugly in winquake (dpmod used to come with a colormap.lmp I made that made it look like glquake - looked very nice). (DarkPlaces lacks all such ambient hacks - but the r_ambient cvar can be used to raise the black level on everything)
winquake and glquake both have "minlight" values in the model and viewmodel rendering code to prevent any models from getting extremely dark, and the viewmodel in particular is never allowed to get as dark as normal models can. (DarkPlaces lacks all such model lighting hacks)
winquake and glquake limit how bright a model can get, this is most obvious in winquake when watching players run around in the grassy outdoor area in dm3.
(DarkPlaces lacks all such model lighting hacks, models blend in very well with their environment)

**Canadian*Sniper** · 01-12-2008, 02:12 AM

Thanks for your feedback R00k and LordHavoc

Anyone viewing this thread can post their opinion on gl_doubleeyes being temp removed like r_wateralpha is on some servers.

**R00k** · 01-12-2008, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by LordHavoc View Post

I should point out another interesting collection of hacks in Quake rendering:

winquake has a colormap.lmp that is built to never have "true black", giving everyone using extreme gamma levels the ability to see in the dark, such settings are more difficult to achieve in glquake, and to be honest this lack of true black was rather ugly in winquake (dpmod used to come with a colormap.lmp I made that made it look like glquake - looked very nice). (DarkPlaces lacks all such ambient hacks - but the r_ambient cvar can be used to raise the black level on everything)
winquake and glquake both have "minlight" values in the model and viewmodel rendering code to prevent any models from getting extremely dark, and the viewmodel in particular is never allowed to get as dark as normal models can. (DarkPlaces lacks all such model lighting hacks)
winquake and glquake limit how bright a model can get, this is most obvious in winquake when watching players run around in the grassy outdoor area in dm3.
(DarkPlaces lacks all such model lighting hacks, models blend in very well with their environment)

Yes this is something that kinda bugged me in quake how my gun model is brighter than i am, so i couldnt really tell how dark i was to other players.
Though, I dont like alias models to go completely black ambientlight at 1 looks pretty good. I use alias model replacements for healthpacks etc and at ambientlight of 1 the healthpacks on dm3 in the corner by nailboxes look dark but not flat black...

**Baker** · 01-12-2008, 02:18 PM

I have admit I like the lower and upper bound limits to lighting because I'm used to it.

I hear players discuss troubles on the servers about the removal of lighting bounds:

1. A number of rocket arena maps are too bright to play, according to Monster.

2. Quadraptor and odelay can't play certain maps because the map lighting is insufficient without the hack. One map Quadraptor couldn't play at Dredd:

3. Catalysque, who uses Qrack, complains about the outside DM3 area being too bright.

I know that in many ways, the design of lighting in the id Quake maps is wrong and that technically the maps are too blame.

At the same time, we are kind of stuck with the id maps as they are, the rocket arena maps as they are, etc.

On another note: in DOSQuake often players would go completely black and the first thing I noticed in GLQuake was that this was never true. In fact, I once got accused of cheating because I shot someone hiding in the dark.

Then I sent him a screenshot to prove I wasn't cheating and showing him how he was easily seen in GLQuake and then he accused me of cheating because "my screenshot looked weird" because I was using FOV 108 instead of FOV 90.

Sometimes, you just can't win :d :d

/Although a week later I caught him botting and made a demo so I didn't see him too much after that

Add: One time a few years back someone was convinced that a certain player was cheating because he "fell straight down" when he died instead of being tilted. Ironically, that is an optional feature in DarkPlaces, maybe it was on by default back then.

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