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Socialist Healthcare is Fundamentally Flawed

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  • Socialist Healthcare is Fundamentally Flawed

    It's failed everywhere it was tried. It makes everyone pay higher taxes. It lowers the quality of healthcare. It makes longer waiting lines. It eliminates people's ability to choose their own healthcare plans and their own doctors. It means lesser healthcare for the elderly. It makes things even easier on people who don't work and skim off government. There is absolutely no desire for anyone to be a doctor. Oh and don't forget that ever since England adopted universal healthcare, patient deaths due to doctor negligence have risen nearly 80% more than they were before.

    This is America, if you need a surgery, you get a job and you work for a living like a normal person, don't skim off government programs that let you sit on your ass for 5 years, or wait, even more years now, since they extended unemployment. For every one person who is legitimately bad off and incapable of rational thought and/or working, there are a thousand people who abuse the system for their own personal gain and take money off of social security. Plus it's not like people don't all get healthcare when they need it, liberal propaganda has people believing that if you go into an emergency room you won't get treated simply because you're not "super rich" which is a complete and utter lie. They are required to treat you, it doesn't matter how much money you have.

    Why should the government decide what healthcare I get? Why should the government decide who my doctor is? It shouldn't, but that's what people want. People are getting lazy and stupid, they want the government to do everything for them, since they're too lazy to actually get off their ass and do something like they're supposed to. If anyone remembers during the 2008 election, reporters were asking random people off the street why they were voting for who they were voting for, and the number one answer for people who voted for Obama (a Democrat), was that he would "take care of them" and "pay off their debt for them" because they were too fucking stupid to pay off their own debt, in fact, they were stupid enough to get in debt to begin with by purchasing things they don't need on credit.

  • #2
    im not sure what kind of system Israel has for health care. I mean i dont know how to classify it. But when i was there for several years, its the best thing they have going for them there, it seems like its a universal system, i mean i think i paid the equivalent of 15 bucks a year and was fully covered no matter what happened while i was there. Some of the doctors definitely seemed like they didnt want to be doing their jobs, but for the most part, i enjoyed the healthcare there.
    I dunno, all i know is it was always a breeze there, concerning this topic...
    SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
    THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BB2 H23A1 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
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    • #3
      I can't speak for other countries, but the US government has had 50 years of being disconnected from economic reality.

      What I mean is during super-boom times like the 1950s and 1960s through maybe the 1990s, the economy grew massively.

      The US Government became disconnected with the idea of there really is limited resources and finite tax dollars.

      As a result, virtually anything the government tries to do ends up costing WAAYYY to much $$$ and has a mindblowing bureaucracy of suck.

      Even if other countries could do national healthcare, the US government will fuck it up beyond belief and make the department of motor vehicles look efficient.

      The US government has in excess of 2 million civilian employees with an average salary of close to $100,000 per year.

      There needs to be health care reform but the idea that the US government, which is probably has unfunded future expenses in excess of $100 trillion is going to do healthcare is silly.

      We are probably only a couple of years away from a serious fiscal crisis and circumstances that might make it so foreign countries like China may no longer allow us to borrow $$$.
      Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

      So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

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      • #4
        Originally posted by StatiC View Post
        im not sure what kind of system Israel has for health care. I mean i dont know how to classify it. But when i was there for several years, its the best thing they have going for them there, it seems like its a universal system, i mean i think i paid the equivalent of 15 bucks a year and was fully covered no matter what happened while i was there. Some of the doctors definitely seemed like they didnt want to be doing their jobs, but for the most part, i enjoyed the healthcare there.
        I dunno, all i know is it was always a breeze there, concerning this topic...
        Israel is a small country with only a few million people. The government of Israel is close to the people and knows it has limited resources and uses them very well. The governments of smaller countries are fast, responsive and manage resources well.

        The US government suffers from "inefficiency of scale". It is slow, blind, inept, plodding, wasteful and isolated from the people ("Washington culture"). And has a mentality that there are unlimited resources and no time frames. They aren't responsible for paving the roads, that $$$ is given to states and there is a reason for that.
        Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

        So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

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        • #5
          ahh, Israel is pretty dense, except for desert, uninhabitable areas, so i was just suspecting since the density scale is possibly similar it could stand a chance of working...

          wow, this is a big problem for Americans, i hope it all gets worked out...
          Canada cant lend u any money can they ???

          edit: wow, i just checked wikipedia, and Israel's densit is roughly 365/km squared, and the U.S.' is 33.7...
          damn ! ten times higher density, i never knew that...

          but ya, if the fuckin Gov wasnt so greedy in some areas, then good healthcare could stand half a chance of working out.
          Last edited by StatiC; 04-04-2011, 08:10 AM.
          SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
          THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BB2 H23A1 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
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          • #6
            I think the US has set a path on global domination and they don't give a fuck about their own people, very sad that the richest country in the world is suffering while the ruling class gets their pockets stuffed.
            But its a good time for this tune --> [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E96PQuIl_cQ]YouTube - The Smashing Pumpkins - Bullet with Butterfly Wings w/ Lyrics[/ame]

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            • #7
              Originally posted by UnendingRequiem View Post
              It's failed everywhere it was tried.
              It's actually been working in most of Europe for a long time now.
              IT LIVES! http://directq.blogspot.com/

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              • #8
                Why I love Canada's healthcare system.
                I am Type 1 Diabetic - so I need:
                Lantus (was previously on Humalin N)
                Humalog
                Needle tips
                Test Strips
                Lancets

                and occasionally I need urine strips to test the Keytones in my system.
                In CDN $:
                Lantus - 85
                Humalog - 80
                Needle Tips - 45
                Test Strips - 90
                Lancets - 10
                Urine Strips - cannot recall

                Since I am low income. When I was living in my hometown - Edmonton Alberta - I paid $0.00. Did not need to pay into any benefits or anything. I sent a application in with my last years tax info, approved and done.
                Saskatchewan had the same, however they basically still made you pay 10% or if you had a high cost of medical needs - you got more coverage.
                Basically if I bought all the supplies - it costs me basically $50 - instead of over $300 and this is monthly.

                Going to the hospital, I am treated just as quick as someone who makes $200,000 a year. My hospitalization that happened last year with me going into a coma - I shared a room with a man who was a manager at a major retail chain - and I at the time was unemployed. Treated equally, fed the same food (overall, mine was slightly different due to being diabetic).

                Sadly something like this isn't possible everywhere. In the USA - it *could* be tried. However the population is FAR greater than Canada - and it'd need more $$$ to make it possible - meaning likely more taxes. However in a way - if I was American - I'd be happy with more taxes to provide "free" health care.

                @Static - I think my above reason is why Canada maybe can't lol. On me alone - they spend over $3600 annually in medical supplies. Multiply this by every Type 1 Diabetic who is on low income and anyone who has high cost of medical needs - you can make "decent" income and still be elidgable if you have high medical cost needs.
                That and my wife and soon to be my daughters (and possibly me soon) are Treaty Status (Aboriginal) and that's Free medical w/Prescriptions.

                @MH - works, however I do know some are unhappy with it. My wife is a LiveJournal addict (yes laugh now lol) and does Pen-Palling. She has some in and around the country and there has been complaints from them concerning healthcare. I don't know what in particular. However again that is just human mentality. We have many here in Canada complain about our HealthCare system - which is completely obsurd as ours is easily one of the best - but people are stubborn and will use a single bad experience as a excuse to say "it sucks"

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                • #9
                  About 60 cents on every tax dollar collected by the Fed already goes to repay debts to China. China wont be allowing us to borrow anymore, and is wisely going to allow us to figure this one out for ourselves, which is the way it ought of have been done in the first place, otherwise we would not be here. The amount the feds get from duties and taxes on imported goods from China, in addition to the sales taxes paid when the consumer buys them, WAS more than enough money than they knew what to do with, so they pocketed it by jacking up their pay scales. Now they are talking government shutdown? Hello, ? what was it before this talk? It was already shutdown and corrupted - just no one had the guts to really talk about it. How could they bailout 2 or 3 major banks and automotive companies ? I would guess those are the companies the government employees held the most stock in and have familes working in those companies....and dont want to see them jobless. they are also saying some of them have already repaid the bailout money...haha ? How, in this most worst economy in the history did they do that?

                  EDIT: also forgot to mention, some states have tax on toilet paper...so in addition to all the money they rake in, every time you wipe, you are paying them.
                  Last edited by Cobalt; 04-04-2011, 11:37 AM. Reason: update

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                  • #10
                    well, i used to know somebody here in Canada, once was a friend, sorta... these days he is the proud owner of 7 assholes...
                    anyways when he was at the hospital, with one of my current friends, he said to the nurses treating him, "i make 30,000 dollars a month, u have to treat me and make it good, because i am rich"... Ya, go fig.....
                    SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
                    THE IMITATION OF ANY OR ALL MANEUVERS EXECUTED BY A BB2 H23A1 4WS PRELUDE IS HAZARDOUS TO YOUR CAR'S HEALTH. DRIVING A PRELUDE MAY CAUSE LOSS OF INTEREST IN OTHER CARS, WOMEN AND SPEED LIMITS. OTHER SYMPTOMS INCLUDE SLEEPLESS NIGHTS, COLD SWEATS AND OTHER SYMPTOMS RELATED TO ADDICTION. IF THE SYMPTOMS PERSIST,DRIVE!
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                    • #11
                      I get the impression that most USians would like to go back to a time where everyone is a gun toting farmer who makes his own law and shows these goddamn red injuns who's boss.
                      Scout's Journey
                      Rune of Earth Magic

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by golden_boy View Post
                        I get the impression that most USians would like to go back to a time where everyone is a gun toting farmer who makes his own law and shows these goddamn red injuns who's boss.
                        Our federal government is legitimately terrible at almost everything they do.

                        There *should be* some sort of health care solution in the United States.

                        But the federal government is so inept, bloated and fumbling they'd stand no chance of doing it.

                        Our federal government is nowhere near as efficient as European governments.

                        The issue isn't whether or not there should be some sort of healthcare solution, but that our government is so inefficient that it couldn't ever possibly do it anywhere near right.

                        It is almost tragic.

                        An example: Let's say Lebron James runs down the basketball court and slam dunks a basketball. Your government is Lebron James. Now some sloppy obese fat kid looks and says "Hey, that's a good idea". Ambles down the court, trips over shoelaces, makes a pathetic attempt to jump 5 times barely getting off the ground then goes gets a ladder. That's OUR government.

                        Our government will do stupid things like field a fleet of 1 million cars and only in 2011 gets the idea that maybe there should be strict fuel standards for government vehicles --- telling everyone else to save fuel and wasting tons of it themselves. Our federal government is truely inefficient and ineffective.
                        Last edited by Baker; 04-04-2011, 12:32 PM.
                        Quakeone.com - Being exactly one-half good and one-half evil has advantages. When a portal opens to the antimatter universe, my opposite is just me with a goatee.

                        So while you guys all have to fight your anti-matter counterparts, me and my evil twin will be drinking a beer laughing at you guys ...

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                        • #13
                          @ Baker: OK, I can't argue with that.

                          The german government is quite honestly afraid of its voters, which is why sometimes they can't participate in some war or build new nuke plants. :-) They're not magically superb at governing, quite the opposite. They are voter driven / fear driven. They run across the basketball court so fast because they're scared - constantly cattle-prodded by elections. The federal republic consists of 16 lands, all of which regularly face elections and thus the political caste in germany is never really "safe" for a long period of time (losing a single land can be a serious drawback for the central gov). Basically this government faces elections all the time which makes it hard for them to sit back and slack. They lost two elections just a week ago or so. One of the lands they just lost now has a green majority. I'm sure that hurts. In the last 30 years, Germany has seen the rise of two new parties (the greens, and the Left - and "left" in germany means "a deep crimson red") which is another factor in keeping the gov't on their toes. Not to mention they lose people due to scandals or losses, further weakening them.

                          That, in a nutshell, is why they run really fast across the basketball court...

                          The concept of social(ised) healthcare has little to do with this though, the OP claimed it was flawed which remains to be seen (and as MH said, it runs in a lot of european countries and the EU has about 500 million inhabitants).

                          I guess these are two different topics.
                          Scout's Journey
                          Rune of Earth Magic

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                          • #14
                            I believe that there's a major perception difference between the US and Europe at work too. The very use of the word "socialist" in the thread title kinda gives that away; to a lot of you Yanks what goes on over here could and would be percieved as "no-good rootin-tootin dirty-lowdown yellow-belly commie-bastard hippy-shit".

                            Put it this way: what's seen as kinda moderately wishy-washy right of center in Europe is generally seen as waaaayyyy left in the US, because we both operate on different scales. I'm not commenting on what's right or what's wrong, but I will say that in general political terms the US is probably one of the most right-wing countries in the world right now, and that does influence it's perceptions.
                            IT LIVES! http://directq.blogspot.com/

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                            • #15
                              This thread took off like a bat out of hell.

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