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Authentic Model Improvement

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  • oh yeah, I still love the chillo one. it has real character and between us here and chillo himself we've all done a lot to make it better and better... I'll still keep it on file.
    thats also the beauty of the moddb page. all the old verions remain for future retrospective preusal...

    as for the other thing TM was saying about overly critical dick'eads.
    Yeah, I'll admit I might see something and think; 'thats nice but i'd personally like it to be like this' but I won't just say that, I'll give It a go myself first and then post my attempt. at least try to exhaust my own abilities on it before I ask someone else to do what Im trying and failing to. But I'd never have the audacity to outright say that someones design is "wrong" maybe say yeah its good, or different or an interesting alternative but not perhaps as authentic as it could be if trying to emulate an old style, but never wrong.
    If I think its silly or not my cup of tea, I'll say so. I'll say if I think someones made something that just makes me think WTF is that all about? but its not wrong. because it cant be.
    art it art. pure creativity and expression of emotion and will. how can that be right or wrong... as Ive said, easy to sit on the fence and critisize, I say 'keep your mouth shut unless you've at least tried to do better... '
    I can understand critism of someone who claims to be the shit at something and the type boastful of his/her work that is clearly not deserving of such self praise but to tear apart a humble and genuine creative artist is to be an utter wank. pure and simple.

    god Ive been moaning a lot of late... sorry guys...
    this whole world crisis has enforced the realisation in me just how short life is and I'm not gonna be backward in coming forward about the things in life I see as unjust or unpleasant behaviour in people.
    in truth, we have to be honest. there simply aint gonna be as many of us left in this world now as the next few years go by and this plague continues to ravage the population, so I think its about time we all looked at what we say and do and think about how it affects us all...
    regrets are a waste of good drinking time...
    Last edited by osjclatchford; 02-08-2021, 02:24 PM.


    • So... I checked what the guy sent me. At first it seemed like a nice pack with a bunch of models, but it turned out to be a compilation of entries from Chillo 1.7, AD, Quake 1.5 and others. No sources we didn't know already. The ogre was pretty much what we are working on right now, so we can forget about it.

      However, there was some constructive criticism that might be worth considering:

      1) Backpack (backpack.mdl):
      Overlay problem with skin on the side - black spots?

      2) Lavaball (lavaball.mdl):
      Chillo's lavaball has 112 polies, ours 64

      3) Shub (oldone.mdl):
      Position of tentacles in the last 45 frames is too far from the first frame, leading to twitches during animation cycle. Left tentacle is particularly noticable

      4) Vore (shalrath.mdl):
      Walking animation frames 23 and 24 are identical which makes walking twitchy. Chillo's original model apparently didn't have that

      5) Grenade Launcher (v_rock):
      Missing muzzleflash when firing

      6) Rocket launcher (v_rock2):
      - Barrel position difference between frame 6 and 0 is large, leading to a twitch when returning to original position
      - Missing muzzleflash when firing

      Comments from my side:
      1) Regarding the backpack, I am not sure what he means, I cannot see anything wrong with the model at first glance.
      2) Dunno if it's worth replacing our version with another just because of higher polycount, it's a simple model and not that important.
      3)-4) Shub should be possible to edit if necessary since TM has the source. Vore walking could indeed be smoother (maybe frame got lost during editing process).
      5)-6) I was aware of the missing muzzleflashes for GL and RL, but didn't mention it for a while since we had nobody who could edit existing models. Maybe TM can look into that at some point. Whether the RL recoil can or should be improved depends on whether another few frames can be inserted into the firing animation loop, I guess.
      Last edited by NightFright; 02-09-2021, 12:12 AM.
      Authentic Models Pack
      OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
      LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


      • I'll look into The Old One's animations. I thought I fixed that, but maybe it didn't get back ported to the authentic version.

        I'd like to eventually do my own versions of various other Quake critters like the Vore. Don't get too excited though as I'm short on time at the moment. That's the plan though.

        I'll check out the back pack. That should be a quick job.


        • here: is a file with new models for lavaball and lavarock (same models different names) and proxbomb based on that chillo lavaball model as it is indeed much smoother.
          the proxbomb is actually round now and for the lava-balls I did the tilt and oval shape as I did on the ad model as before...

          Alas, I tried to add muzzleflashes to the rl and gl but failed.
          By removing all vreticies but the flashes on the old id1 models then blending the resultant model with the new v_weapons we use now. however for whatever reason I cant navigate the viewscreen and select verticies at the same time and my version of qme wont let me drag select polys either so attemting to move the flashes out of the way in all frames but the one I want it in is next to impossible... sigh...

          the backpack has some stripey detail not on the original:
          those stripes (which ive taken to be vented expandable areas of the bag) are what I think he's referring to... meh, just tell him to use thatone from copper mod...
          Last edited by osjclatchford; 02-09-2021, 04:21 AM.


          • OK. The backpack had some texture mapping issues. I looked at the face normals and they were all 'outies'.

            Quick game tech tut: A face normal is how the game sees a polygon on a game model. If the face normal is pointing out, then the game will see it as long as there is a texture attached. If it's pointing in, then you won't see the face. That is what happened to the sheild model. Because the normals were inside out, the model looked inside out. You could see through the front's normals as they were pointing in and were looking at the 'back' of the model because all the back faces had their normals pointing to the player. When editing a model, the face normals can be reversed if the modelling app gets confused about what is out and what is in while you are mangling the verts and faces. It's always a good idea to check these before publishing your game model.

            All the normals looked good on the backpack. In the picture with the blue lines, the blue lines pointing out indicate the direction of the normals. I merged a lot of overlapping verts. They tend to be created because the importer splits faces when it imports the model. That was the weird extra face on the body of the grav belt. I hid a few faces and took a peek into the model and I didn't see any extra internal faces that shouldn't be there. They can cause shading issues on models and are best avoided. Same with overlapping faces.

            There were some strange UV texture mapping issues. I fixed them. The model looks great in QME. Rotate flag was set 'on'.

            Attached Files
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            • as far as my understanding of it all goes, that was a waste of a perfectly good explanation on your part... LOL

              but thanks for fixing the backpack model, LOL...

              I'm sure it will make sense to others looking at this though


              • Wow, I never thought the backpack skin was wrong. It looks indeed a lot better now! I like when people actually give you bug reports that are helpful.
                Authentic Models Pack
                OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                • lols me too. yep, not all crits are bad-uns...

                  oh just fyi ive just had to reupload this: because I noticed the proxbomb was off-centre making for a wobbley flight path. fixed now...


                  • Great! Oh, forgot to mention: Thanks a lot for the fast backpack fix, TM!

                    For now I have updated the to-do list to add the ID1 model issues reported by Andrey Shalunov (that's the name of the Russian guy).
                    Authentic Models Pack
                    OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                    LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                    • try this smoother rocket launcher animation ammendment:
                      smoother osjc

                      no, still no muzzleflash but frame 7 is now no longer a copy of frame 6 and is a transitional frame between 6 and 1 which should make the end of the animation smoother.
                      is that what you're after?
                      Attached Files


                      • Yepp, that's pretty much it. Looks a lot better ingame now! Not bad at all for someone who started with mere skin edits...
                        While we are at it, I will also update the Multi-Rocket Launcher from DoE with this (it's just a matter of importing the skin from our v_multi2.mdl to this v_rock2.mdl).
                        Authentic Models Pack
                        OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                        LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                        • well here's something I've just been toying with:

                          its a new skin for the rl with attempts to look even more faithfull
                          shown on my angled rl in the pic but is centred in the file...

                          if you prefer this I'll do the multi skin for it too... i'm not 100% convinced on this one. depending on local light sources, I feel the illusion gets wrecked at some angles...

                          Im thinking keep the higher detail on the body of the skin but revert the parts on the back of the 'vents' to as they were on the previous iteration, but what say you?

                          tried that and I really do prefer it...
                          (this and the other skin above are both on the model in the file linked on this post)
                          Last edited by osjclatchford; 02-09-2021, 08:41 AM.


                          • I have checked this model and it has three skins in it. The difference between the first and the third can only be seen when you look really close. Texture has a finer grain and the left vent is a bit different. The second one has the rear parts of the vents highlighted.

                            AFAIK we are currently using skin #3. When comparing it with the original, skin #2 seems to be better since the vents are also highlighted on the id1 model. Weird, but it's indeed like that. So, skin #2 it is, unless there are major concerns.

                            (And no need to do the DoE skin, I have done it already - GIMP FTW.)
                            Last edited by NightFright; 02-09-2021, 09:37 AM.
                            Authentic Models Pack
                            OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                            LIT/VIS files for Quake addons


                            • there's actually a large difference in resolution/detail between skin1 and skin3

                              yes skin 3 is indeed the current one.
                              I then made skin2, higher res on the bodywork and the highlighted vents.
                              I then decided I did not like the vents and made skin1
                              which is the higher res body with the old vents. which i personally prefer. if you're using skin2 you get the higher res skin and new 'classic style' vents... so yeah groovy!

                              this gif:
                              shows the difference between skin1 and skin3...
                              skin3 is lower res than skin1 essentially...

                              but, as I say skin2 uses the higher res skin as a base too so you're using that already, just with the classic vents...
                              Last edited by osjclatchford; 02-09-2021, 09:46 AM.


                              • I feel skin #2 highlights the vents better compared to the other two. It's again a case of personal preference, I guess. But yeah, after a short time it's growing on me. Seems like a small change at first, but it adds some more definition to the model in the end.

                                Now we just need those muzzleflashes back eventually. Amazing how there are always new things popping up lately. As if this doesn't want to get finished.

                                Remind me to say thanks to Andrey. While none of his models were useful, his input certainly was. Why can't more people be like that, actually TELLING you what could be improved instead of just saying "can't see the difference" or "I like some other model better"? Sigh.
                                Last edited by NightFright; 02-09-2021, 09:51 AM.
                                Authentic Models Pack
                                OriOn's ID1 Model Fixes for MP1+2
                                LIT/VIS files for Quake addons